I make no bones about it, these days. I drift very heavily in among my conservative friends–I am culturally conservative, in most respects, and very conservative as regards the authority of the Scriptures, but I won’t deny that “conservative” these days seems most often to be deployed for one of three purposes:
And I did, once, vote for the Libertarian candidate–for governor of Illinois, in the mid-90s. In Illinois, you must understand, despite the wishes of the rest of the state there are Chicago Machine Democrats and Chicago Machine Republicans, and for most of the last 20+ years, it was corrupt Republicans who ran the executive. The current governor is, of course, making many a voter wish for the days of “Big Jim.”
By the way, that’s the politics Obama comes from. ahemRezkoahem
But I digress (usually). The end of the matter, for me, is this: there is no God-given reason to use the power of the State to back one vision for culture or society over another; there is every reason the governments we live under among the nations should become, to the extent we are able, just in their efforts to punish and deter and demand restitution be made for the use of force and fraud among their citizens; and that they become, as we are able, just in their efforts to resist and deter and demand restitution be made for the use of force and fraud against their citizens by other nations. Policing and borders, courts and armies, the collective self-defense (as Bastiat would call it): these are the affairs of government.
The rest is intrusion, and self-aggrandizement, and high-minded faith in one’s own ability to judge. That’s what this “libertarian” thinks. To the extent government is responsive to our efforts, our efforts should be directed to getting the government to limit itself to these tasks, to enshrine and institutionalize those limits, and to enforce them against it.
And that’s why this libertarian cannot support the Libertarian Party. Quite simply:
The Issue: The tragedies caused by unplanned, unwanted pregnancies are aggravated and sometimes created by government policies of censorship, restriction, regulation and prohibition.
Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on both sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.
(Official Website of the Libertarian National Committee)
“Government should be kept out of the matter” simply will not work where the killing of human beings is concerned. We can argue over whether to call it “murder”–Many think the term is generally applicable, while dedicated pro-lifer and author of The Party of Death Ramesh Ponnuru actually does not. It is certainly homicide.
And that’s the problem. “Up to you” about homicide is not libertarian. Force (D&E requires force; partial-birth abortion requires lots of force) and fraud (Planned Parenthood’s consistent effort to squelch disclosures that are bad for business, among other things) are being used against a human being; there is no due process for the baby, no right to face accusers, no attorney, no vigorous defence, before the vacuum cleaner brains her.
That’s the Libertarian Party. But it’s not libertarian.
And John McCain, bless him, makes me crazy. I want to hate him some days. But he has a consistent anti-abortion record (to be honest, some of the pro-life issue set are too complex for me to be self-assured about a position; abortion is easy). I believe he will back these plays:
John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.
However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion.
There’s way too much mealy-mouthing, even so, on that page (read it all). And yet–for now, it seems, it’s too much to ask to be a libertarian and vote for the Party so named.
But then, who ever heard of libertarians with a Party Line?
Pgepps, I believe that a large majority of Republicans are really Libertarian in their philosophy of government. The problem is, we are afraid to vote Libertarian for fear of splitting the vote and leaving the democrats to clean up in elections across the country.
Another problem is that a lot of people, like you, decide that the Libertarian party is not for them because of ONE issue. However, how many issues do you disagree with in the Republican party? I can bet it’s a lot more than one issue.
A political party cannot be everything to everyone, but we can find some common ground. I happen to agree with the Libertarian Partys stance on abortion, but I disagree with the legalization of all drugs. However, this one issue I disagree with doesn’t keep me from supporting them.
I live in Illinois which is solidly and undeniably a blue state, so I vote Libertarian on many candidates because voting Republican won’t make a difference. However, in elections where I feel democrats might be ousted, I vote Republican - not because I agree with them, but because any Republican - ANY Republican, is better than a democrat. And I stand by that statement.
I would rather have a corrupt Republican than a “moral” Democrat.
I, too, have many Libertarian views, but I’m from a state, Tennessee, where Republican votes do matter and Libertarian candidates are scarce. I disagree with the legalization of all drugs and I think their noninterventionist foreign policy is a little soft.
I actually do not disagree with them that government should be left out of the abortion debate. Don’t get me wrong. I am pro-life and anti-abortion. I just think that we need, at this stage, to focus more on changing hearts and minds than changing laws. We need to make birth and adoption more attractive to the women who would otherwise abort.
I’m very proud of members of my family who have recently adopted after having children of their own. We need more Christians like them to take in children and raise them with love.
Joe–as it happens, I’m more libertarian on drugs than you.
melo–beyond a doubt, there is a role much more important than the political one, in the anti-abortion crusade. However, I’d have a really hard time going out to vote for anyone who didn’t think killing had legal ramifications.
Pgepps - Before I became a Police Officer, I too was against the war on drugs and believed in complete legalization likening the war on drugs to the failed era of prohibition. However, after seeing how drugs completely decimate communities, families, and individuals, I can no longer support an across the board legalization of drugs a la the Libertarian Party. I would, however, agree to decriminalization of some drugs and revisiting the war on drugs altogether.
I am Pro-life morally, but I don’t agree with the government forcing people to have babies. If we make abortion illegal, women who choose to abort their babies will seek out more horrific means of performing the abortion.
See, I sense that we reverberate in similar ways, here. I bet if I ask you what arguments I’ll probably make next, you can tell me.
I’ll take a pass. I actually concur that while in principle it’s “nunya” what people ingest, in our current ordering of affairs it’s simply impossible to cherry-pick this one issue out for “legalization” as though conferring some positive benefit. It smacks of saying “it’s OK” (though it shouldn’t) and it likely would be accompanied by huge problems and gov’t intrusions to “solve” them…. worse ones even than the War on Drugs. My *policy* preference is for the feds to renounce the War on Drugs, quietly fail to enforce a number of laws on the books against local gov’t, and generally lapse into “salutary neglect” with occasional responses to major problems.
WRT abortion…. well, what am I gonna say next?
Good thoughts here, Pgepps, thanks for this thread.
Hey guys, did y’all see this at WSJ?
Interesting… for years I identified myself as independent because I have voted for candidates in many parties. I definitely have Libertarian views and don’t want to align with any party. However, if you try to use Libertarian to identify yourself at all, you end up attached to the party. Hence the Duchess’s lovely comment on facebook:-)
ayep. note my “Libertarian” ID on Facebook. I quite understand. I almost always have to introduce my political views in clauses, not nouns.